Curse

Kiiron · Aug 03, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Your argument is very dumb. Fact. Don't like your arguments getting called dumb? Don't do it then.
Do the Koreans have to put up teams which are destroying the other teams? No. Do the Americans have to put up teams which are destroying the other teams? No. So why oh bloody hell, should europe have to? That is just nonsense.
Take a random team of 8 players(friends). Force them to play Tombs one week long, two hours each day. Everyday in the same team with the same people. By the end of the week they have seen all trendwh_ore builds in Tombs and the Hall of Heroes. It will take about one day of combined brainpower to work out a counter to it and start fighting for real. Watch them get the favor a few days or more. Then watch the counters to THEIR Strategy flowing in. Watch them adapt... et voila we have a team that can put up a fight and get europe the favor. All it takes is a bit of dedication.

You don't need to be ubergood to pull of something. By YOUR argument you're assuming the other teams are perfect. Nothing is perfect and especially in guildwars there is a counter to everything. But once again this is what i am saying all the time. Europeans chicken out. And your post my friend is yet another proof. You can stop with those now though, i know europe is "teh suxx0r" when it comes to morale and initiative.

/edit:
To make it clear, i don't want the PVErs to make PVP. Hell, let them do what they want. I do both and can really understand them. I am speaking about the PVPers in Europe who are so fricking affraid of other teams they probably lose due to real bad morale.

Ummm... I have to agree with Fantus. While it is true that any one team going into the HoH has a chance of winning, it's also true that more teams for each country result in more chances to win, therefore countries with alot of players have an immediate advantage. If at a given time hypothetical server A has 30,000 people online, server B 25,000 people online, and server C has 10,000 people online, then, statistically, servers A and B would win a bit under 50% of the time each, while server C would win about 1/6 of the time. That puts the players of server C at a natural disadvantage, much like Europe. It's not a problem that can be solved by putting together a few good teams each night. Why does China have so many more Olympic metals than Jamaca? It might be because the Jamacans aren't trying hard enough, but I doubt it's that simple

Mayar third Keeper · Aug 03, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

i dont like it, but Feli is so attired in Quality, so i have to.

lets take a look at the 3 teams maps:

A = American team K = Korean team E= European team

A
A
E -> A wins because they teamup

K
K
A -> K wins because they teamup

K
A
A -> A wins

K
A
E -> E wins

E
K
K -> K wins

A
A
A -> A get one free (!)

A
A
A -> A get one free (!)

A
k
k -> k win

E
A
K -> E wins

----next fights:---

A
K
A -> A wins because they teamup

A
E
E -> E wins because the team up (they lost 50% of the Tombteams)

K
A
K -> K wins

E have to win 3 times with 4 teams
K have to win 3 times with 9 teams
A have to win 3 times with 14 teams

The reason why quantity counts are the 1vs1vs1 maps. I rarly see american teams win in a row. it is more like

team a wins and keeps the favor for america
team c wins and keeps the favor for america
team e wins and keeps the favor for america
team a wins and keeps the favor for america

There are to few European teams to make a difference. Only if one is good enough to win against 2 teams, europe will get the favour.

I know this is an example and please tell me if im wrong but i think this is the point.

But in my view this could be fixed by virtual factions instead of real life boundaries.

Feli · Aug 03, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Fact??? So go ahead and prove me wrong! Produce a team that can win HoH every time it enters (or even 75% of the time). As long as you can't do that (AND YOU CAN'T, RIGHT?), I will stick to what I said. Period.

As i said, the will to lose is sticking deep in the european players. Why do you have to win EVERYtime? WHY do you think someone must be the "uber extremz0r ownage" to fight there? That is just nonsense. The teams in the hall of heroes are often mediocre, if not really bad. No matter which realm.

You win some, you lose some, you adapt. You win some more, you lose some more, you adapt again. A constant flow. But just assuming the koreans and americans are allways superior is.. utter... bullshit.

And guess what, right now i am waiting for a few friends to come back from holiday. Plan some more time into getting the final few skills left to unlock and expect us to do just what i said. Play and adapt and win enough to gain favor during europes peak times.
And i am very confident we can do that. If not we, we might encourage other teams to stop their ultra morale suckage.

But you (the one above me, the one wo wanted to call my arguments dumb and many others in this thread, along with MANY more europeans in the game) are so fricking used to get owned, you go in there and WANT to get owned. Just so you can say it is useless to fight... army of surrender. But other than in the common known saying it is not the french army, but the european army which should be called army of surrender (with great shame). But what is it with europe? Europe even takes PRIDE in whining how useless everything is, thats just weird.

About the fact thing, well. I have nothing to say "fact". But you have neither. If you still did not get my point in that its hopeless anyways. Hint: Instead of expecting me to put up a fact to backup YOUR argument. Why not go and show me it is impossible to get favor? Because that would include you'd have to give up the "europe will never get favor" attitude and i'm sure you are not ready for that are you?
I say try it, while you say don't try it, its hopeless. Which of both ways will get europe the favor? Make a guess. You're either honest or you still insist on begging A.net to change something.

And once again, even though i'm sure you will still not get it.
It is neither the population which is denying europe the favor, nor is it the amount of top players. It is solely and simple said a very simple three word sentence.
"Crappy european morale"

About Mayar third Keeper Argument... this is a thing where another bad habit of europe prevents a win. Even if there are 2 korean or american teams, it would take them some time to forge a pact against europe. Otherwise they never know if the others just won't backstab them. And Europe is giving them that time by just trying to wait it out everytime.

The best teams i've seen on 1 vs 1 vs 1 scenarios are those which don't wait it out, but instantly steamroll another team. When the other team appears as well. Well, fire some spells into their direction too so they simply don't know which side attacked them. Don't give them time. Don't give them the opportunity to attack and force you into defense. Don't react. ACT!

Fantus · Aug 03, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Europe even takes PRIDE in whining how useless everything is, thats just weird.

It's not called "whining", it's called "math".

But since you are obviously not able or willing to understand anything I am saying, I will end this discussion now.

Feli · Aug 03, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

It's not called "whining", it's called "math".

But since you are obviously not able or willing to understand anything I am saying, I will end this discussion now.

It's called whining the second you hurry over to boards and beg Arena.net to change it. And math is nice and whatever, but math doesn't apply to all parts of life.

But since YOU are obviously not able or willing to understand my point, even after giving you argument after argument with NOT A SINGLE argument from your side... besides some made up facts and wannabe saviour math.
I seriously doubt you'll ever understand. Go on, live in fear of the koreans and americans then. Thank you, they'll say. It's cowards and people with a zero morale attitude like you who help them win.

P.S.:
Discussion is based upon arguments and counter-arguments. All you did was call my arguments dumb and ignore them alltogether. So which discussion exactly do you want to end again?

Antagonist · Aug 03, 2005, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

It's called whining the second you hurry over to boards and beg Arena.net to change it. And math is nice and whatever, but math doesn't apply to all parts of life.

A little off-topic: That's not true. Most of our reality (probably all of it) can be described with math.

Snuk the Great · Aug 03, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Europeans are no cowards, where did you ever get that idea? Never asume that Europeans are afraid. They rather dont give a crap then be afraid. And why in hell would they be afraid!? Its a game for crying out loud!

And I dont care whatever you say, we are outnumbered. But do we care? No just a few of us do, most of us just play the game.

[EDIT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antagonist

A little off-topic: That's not true. Most of our reality (probably all of it) can be described with math.

As a programmer I agree :P.

Fantus · Aug 03, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

math doesn't apply to all parts of life.

ROTFL

As a matter of fact it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Go on, live in fear of the koreans and americans then. Thank you, they'll say. It's cowards and people with a zero morale attitude like you who help them win.

Thanks for attacking me personally. Read my posts carefully again and you will see that I ALWAYS attacked only your arguments, not your person. Grow up, kid! Get some manners!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

So which discussion exactly do you want to end again?

Above I was announcing my intent to leave to American servers and you attacked me for it. THAT discussion I am going to end.

Feli · Aug 04, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antagonist

A little off-topic: That's not true. Most of our reality (probably all of it) can be described with math.

Describe Love
Describe Friendship
Describe Passion
Describe Dedication
[...]
Describe Logic
Describe Luck
Describe Skill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuk the Great

Europeans are no cowards, where did you ever get that idea? Never asume that Europeans are afraid. They rather dont give a crap then be afraid. And why in hell would they be afraid!? Its a game for crying out loud!

You've ever been to the tombs? You'd know they ARE cowards: or as you are all so obsessed with mathematics. Take 10 european teams based upon 8 players. Out of those 10 teams 9 will start to panic when their opponent is either Korean or American. Out of those 9 panicing teams, 6 Teams will be dealing with leavers on their side because people are too affraid to fight Korean and prefer going back to the outpost and re-engage in hope of not fighting Koreans.
What exactly is this, if not cowardish?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

ROTFL

As a matter of fact it does.

See above.

Quote:

Thanks for attacking me personally. Read my posts carefully again and you will see that I ALWAYS attacked only your arguments, not your person. Grow up, kid! Get some manners!

I'm 22 years old, bad luck here i guess. Go again and try to flame me differently as this one obviously did not achieve your intention. Instead you might as well go back and think why you were so incredibly pissed about being called a person with zero morale when it comes to tombs. Maybe because it is true? You know it is.

Quote:

Above I was announcing my intent to leave to American servers and you attacked me for it. THAT discussion I am going to end.

If YOU read again what I wrote you'd see that people leaving for the American Servers are either PVErs (and i don't care if they do it) or PVPers (and as such, poor and simply cowards). Which are you? If you're the first of it, you weren't even meant. Yet you still kept calling my arguments dumb (and as an indirect assumption calling ME dumb. Yes, i read between the lines). If you're the second... you're a weak coward. Yes, i'm saying this as it is. At the simple glance of competition you switch sides to be in the typical winning team.
No matter where you are and what you are doing, that is just lame. If you do it in real life you're a damn traitor. If you do it in first person shooters you're a damn winning team joiner and often kickbanned for that. If you do it in strategy games you're a damn winning team joiner. If you do it in Guildwars you're a hero? Uhm... no you're not. You're a damn cowardish winning team joiner.

Rayea · Aug 04, 2005, 10:41 AM // 10:41

and out of how many panicing teams you listed, how many of THOSE are going to be mostly made up of teenagers and between 10 and 18 somethings?

its normal for some of them to not want to loose, they take stuff like that way to serious like.

and, at the risk of being a generilst, most of what you say sounds like a teenage american kid who is 100% sure of the good ole USA being the absolute be all and end all of his life.
people from europe are not cowardly, simply because some of them do understand when to cut thier lossess and run in games.
and some of us will keep trying to win, even if its hopeless and are going to get bagged every singel time.

its less about courage and cowardess as to numbers.
and go take part in some game or sport that you are outnumbered in, do it for a month, repetitively and come back and tell us how you feel then. you might change your mind, but then again you might not.

Feli · Aug 04, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Î'm from europe and 22 years old, so bad luck on that insult you tried there (you know teenage kid and stuff). But you should have known as some other person failed with the same insult allready. Or did you not read? I'm assuming its a bit of both.
Why are you not replying to my arguments, feared and panicing ones? It is because they are true? I know they are. And you obviously know it as well, else you wouldn't try to insult me in the good old very used internet way of trying to call me a kiddie. But just saying it is because those are younger players is bullshit.

So let us state the facts (which you obviously even agreed too... ironic isn't it? Yet you still wanted to oppose my point... thats just plain weird).

Europe wants the favor (good)
Europe is really happy when it has the favor (good)
9/10 European Teams have people who quit a PVP Battle right away when the opponent is korea or america (bad)
Europe is convinced they are inferior for some made up reasons (bad)
Europe thinks they stand no chance against mediocre Korean or American Teams (very bad)
Europe is emigrating to other realms because they are affraid they actually would have to do something for their favor (very bad)
Europe is constantly whining in the forums and ask Arena.net to fix the mess they caused themselves (poor)

Now let us all face it, and try to be honest at least ONCE.

Europe wants the favor really bad, but instead of going and actually fighting for it, they put their heads into some sand dunes and hope for it to be over soon.
True or not?
I say true and i have put quite a LOT of arguments.
You say not true, but failed to give a single argument (all of you who try to bash me and fail so miserably)

And about numbers. You are simply not outnumberes in Guildwars. Prove me wrong, no one of you did. When exactly are you and your team outnumbered again? In that 1 on 1 scenario? In that 1on1on1 scenario? Only in the last of those two there is a very small chance of being outnumbered if you don't attack straight away and of give them time to make up pacts.
Why do you even care about what the other teams do at the same time? Let it be 5000 teams against 1 european team. As long as those don't fight on the same map (and they simply don't do so) you are far from being outnumbered.

You don't have to be the uber professional to have a chance of winning in the hall of heroes. You know... there are other bad teams too. I don't believe europe is really that narrow minded in the head to understand that.

And yes, it is cowardess to leave a pvp battle right away when the other team is a korean team. They might own you miserably or you actually might own them real bad. Yet europe allways chickens out and runs home. What is this? It is neither pride nor bravery and it is no common sense.
Which losses are you collecting again? What exactly do you lose when they own you real bad? Maybe 3-4 Minutes of your life, boohoo... what a loss, let's all give up and cry arena.net a river so you can get over it while the two other realms are laughing at how europe behaves every time.

Mugon M. Musashi · Aug 04, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Describe Love

Everybody has a favorite type
it happens that statistically, some "types" are prefered over others
therefore if you are from that type, you have more chances to be "loved" (to please)
(and I'm not even talking about the probability to find you future wife/husband in high school or at work)

statistics are maths
statistics can be applied to just everything

statistically, having 10 americans (or 10 koreans) fight against 1 european, there is a bigger chance that the european will lose

but that's just stats
of course the european could just defeat everyone

Antagonist · Aug 04, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Describe Love
Describe Friendship
Describe Passion
Describe Dedication
[...]
Describe Logic
Describe Luck
Describe Skill

Since most of these things are chemical reactions in the nervous system I'm pretty sure that even abstract things as love can be described with math, although it lacks the romantic touch

Don't ask me how though. I was never very attentive during chemisty class

Luck is an exception because even physicist can't decide whether it exists. As far as I know there may be (arguably) random occurences on a quantum level but it does not match with the observation on a makroscopic level where everything seems to have a causal effect.

Snuk the Great · Aug 04, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Europe wants the favor (good)
Europe is really happy when it has the favor (good)
9/10 European Teams have people who quit a PVP Battle right away when the opponent is korea or america (bad)

This is not true. You are so very much overexagerating. Yes there are quitters, but not 9 out of 10... Yes it happens though not this often. If it does happen to you then I wonder...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Europe is convinced they are inferior for some made up reasons (bad)
Europe thinks they stand no chance against mediocre Korean or American Teams (very bad)

This is not true at all, some do. You keep saying ALL of us are afraid, which is not true at all. Most of us just see them as other people wanting to play a game. And most that do get afraid are the younger ones. And what if they do, even when one guy leaves you can make a chance (a remote one, but there still is).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Europe is emigrating to other realms because they are afraid they actually would have to do something for their favor (very bad)

Not bad at all, I don't even want them really...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Europe is constantly whining in the forums and ask Arena.net to fix the mess they caused themselves (poor)

I agree totally, not their problem but ours, try to enjoy the challenge. I mean isn't it great when we do have favor for just once in a while. For the US or Korea it is less nice because it happens every hour or so

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Now let us all face it, and try to be honest at least ONCE.

I am always honest, that's my lifestyle

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Europe wants the favor really bad, but instead of going and actually fighting for it, they put their heads into some sand dunes and hope for it to be over soon.
True or not?
I say true and i have put quite a LOT of arguments.
You say not true, but failed to give a single argument (all of you who try to bash me and fail so miserably)

Not true, not all Europeans do, the ones that complain are always the once you see. But these are lot less then the ones actually not doing it. And if you do not call this an argument.
And I would like to add that you are complaining too, or you are trying to wake people up. Both have a negative background. And to inspire people to do something you must not shout at them but help them. Negativity will only make it worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

And about numbers. You are simply not outnumbered in Guildwars. Prove me wrong, no one of you did. When exactly are you and your team outnumbered again? In that 1 on 1 scenario? In that 1on1on1 scenario? Only in the last of those two there is a very small chance of being outnumbered if you don't attack straight away and of give them time to make up pacts.
Why do you even care about what the other teams do at the same time? Let it be 5000 teams against 1 European team. As long as those don't fight on the same map (and they simply don't do so) you are far from being outnumbered.

How big is the chance that you win from all of these. This does outnumber you, because you have to fight the best of this entire group. Its just a fact that they have more of chance to have a better team, on the other hand it does not render our chances too zero, which lot of people think. So we CAN win, just try, learn from any mistakes and try again. Remember, your supposed to do this for fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

You don't have to be the uber professional to have a chance of winning in the hall of heroes. You know... there are other bad teams too. I don't believe Europe is really that narrow minded in the head to understand that.

True

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

And yes, it is cowardess to leave a pvp battle right away when the other team is a korean team. They might own you miserably or you actually might own them real bad. Yet europe allways chickens out and runs home. What is this? It is neither pride nor bravery and it is no common sense.
Which losses are you collecting again? What exactly do you lose when they own you real bad? Maybe 3-4 Minutes of your life, boohoo... what a loss, let's all give up and cry arena.net a river so you can get over it while the two other realms are laughing at how europe behaves every time.

This negativity will never inspire anybody because people do not like to be cowards (even when they are). And once again not all teams do. For the once that do, yes I disagree with them and hope they maybe want to listen too people that say that there always is a slight possibility that you can win.

Just one more thing Feli. Lighten up, people listen to people that show the bright path that people can follow not the dark path which they should not. Try to give your posts a more positive spin to it, believe me that works a lot better then biatching at people (even when they biatch at you).

nomed · Mar 06, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

One big problem on our european servers is the communication, because everyone's just joining the english channels, weather they speak it or not. That is annoying.
The other regions shouldn't have too many problems with the communication in random parties and that's a big advantage.

If you fight with a team and the communication is good, then losing is half as bad (you can adjust tactics) as losing with a team that doesn't understand each other, because that's just frustrating.

This makes moving to the american servers very tempting.

EternalTempest · Mar 06, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

/Not Signed

If we can go to there servers, they should be able to come to ours. One of my best friends is from UK.

art_ · Mar 06, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

what is it with people and resurrecting *really* old threads?

Fantus · Mar 06, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

what is it with people and resurrecting *really* old threads?

They want to practice death magic and become a Necromancer when they grow up.

Kool Pajamas · Mar 06, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

How about we combine America and Europe together, and then the Asian countries together and make it Asia vs The World! Would be fair...

The Mighty Toe · Mar 06, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Oh... so THAT's how old it is. Fair point art. I'd like to point out that this issue has kinda been resolved already, what with us Europeans having favour every day. *evil laughter* I like Europe